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  • BigMike
    Junior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 7

    #61
    Originally posted by Detonator
    Output will be refreshed every 2 seconds and looks like this:
    Thanks for the info, Detonator ... but, is there any way that 2 seconds can be extended, I don't get to see the whole tree before the refresh starts.

    Regards,

    Mike

    Comment

    • reviewum.com
      Member
      • Mar 2004
      • 63

      #62
      So,

      I'm watching all these numbers flashing by during a top command (I feel like I'm staring into The MATRIX) and had a question.

      I see some people's userID's come towards the top relatively freequently and see that their script is using "1.9%" of the CPU. Is this okay since it is for only a fraction of a second?

      I wish I could see the TOP running with someone who has an active forum (20 - 30 concurrent users) to see what that is bringing in.

      That's the only "hard" number we've heard of being an issue is 20 - 30 concurrent users on a forum is where you get into trouble. Of course this varies from forum to forum... I just installed minibb and boy is it LEAN!!
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      • Frank Hagan
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2004
        • 724

        #63
        I just did a SSH session with "top" running, and ran several of my scripts on my site. Here's what I noticed.

        I have an amazon.com books listing script that, when it first runs, pulls about 3.1 of the CPU time, but then on the next refresh is down to zero. I figure this is OK, because its a very short spike in activity (2 seconds). This script is a CGI script. Looks like they pull a lot when they are running.

        With two users on my forums, and me logging in, there are occasional listings of .1 to .4 CPU (I'm using phpBB). Doesn't look like there's much to worry about with my forums. I'll have to try and see what happens when I have more users logged in.

        But while I was watching, someone logged into their Cpanel. 47% of CPU during that log in, and it lasted for several refresh cycles. 6 to 8 seconds at a minimum. Mailman was also running at one point, and the CPU usage was at 41%. But after a few refresh cycles, it went down also. The Cpanel usage was high as the person checked their AWStats too, but again, it lasted only a few refresh cycles.

        Pretty interesting stuff. I'll have to observe more, but it looks to me like you have to have something going wrong, or a very resource intensive script, to get in too much trouble. Or, have a very large spike in visitors to your forums (I suspect the increase in CPU loading is not linear, but at some point with the database type of scripts reaches a rapid escalation of resources).

        Comment

        • reviewum.com
          Member
          • Mar 2004
          • 63

          #64
          Frank,

          Thanks for that post! I too have noticed that CGI scripts seem to pull a bit of resources... I'm glad I don't really have any on my sites!

          Have you ever heard the saying, "I wish I was a fly on the wall...." in reference to being somewhere when something was happening to see it?

          Well, I wish I was a "fly in SSH running TOP" right before one of these accounts got suspended for resource hogging! It would have been VERY educational to see the TOP and "watch 'pstree" printouts during the busy times.

          So, anybody out there have a relatively busy forum (say 10-15 concurrent users) that they could give us a play by play like Frank?

          <Wow... this is turning out to be an awesome thread... are you mods copying down the good stuff to stick in a FAQ?>
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          Comment

          • MindlessOath
            Member
            • Mar 2004
            • 33

            #65
            im only on page 3 reading

            if your site is popular or growing... you need to get a VPS or a simi dedicated, or even a Dedicated server. the dathorn servers provide great service, exceptional space and bandwidth, but were all using the same servers and they have to be restricted to a certain limit to help the rest of the users... if one person goes over their limits it hurts someone else or the rest of the users on the server. mabe the whole site goes down because of ONE person who SHOULDA moved to annother server solution (as described above).

            obviously im noob about php scripts, but i know enough to decide spacific scripts as well as reading the FAQ's that suggest some of the matters that suggest a lot of the info here. obviously a few things to note... if your getting big, you need to get into a new technology of hosting... a shared reseller account is NOT for you, using up bandwidth and space in your reseller account is fine, and by all means use "GOOD" scripts (read this http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=15249 ) mabe some should change their scripts so that they DONT have such a problem with large user traffic as one option. just using the most popular scripts is NOT always a solution, it may be the easiest way out and an excuse, but thats about all... your clients are to importaint to you to waist on a badly coded script just cause its popular.

            annother thing.... if you dont like somthing thats going on... leave, obviously yelling about how your clients are yelling at you are not going to help. (this is a bit off topic, but i just wanted to mention it) im not talking about dathorn cause i love it here... just in general with any hosting site.

            well take the info and think about it.. just wanted to add a little bit in on the convo... like i said im on page 3 already.... their are like 7pages, got a while to go to see if anyone suggested what i have here :P

            someone on page 6 said something about find out some stats... here is an app you can use: http://www.tacticalcenter.net/phpsysinfo/
            Last edited by MindlessOath; 04-09-2004, 12:56 PM.
            --------
            aka Mo2

            Comment

            • reviewum.com
              Member
              • Mar 2004
              • 63

              #66
              MindlessOath,

              Great suggestions! The last project I did, I specifically looked for efficient scripts (for example, www.minibb.net) because I'd like to do all I can to keep all my sites on Dathorn. Of course, you are right, there is a point where it just isn't feasable to stay on a shared server. Hopefully all of the Dawthornian account holders have a plan for if / when they need to move to a VPS / Dedicated environment. (By the way, if you, or someone you love has moved from a reseller environment to a VPS or Dedicated please let us all know!)

              It's just a difficult situation because like I said earlier, one static text site with a million hits a day is very different from a looping, memory-leaking scripted, DB driven site with only two users! As you can imagine there are lots of possibilities between these two extremes.

              I was looking at another host and it was cool because they gave a specific server CPU limit per customer. I know it won't happen (per Andrew's comments) but a perfect reseller world would be one where:

              1) We'd know the limits we should be sticking too (this many processes, this much CPU, this much memory).
              2) There were easy to use tools to check and get automated notifications of these variables.

              I raised the question in the other forum about accounts per server: I wonder if reselling hosts (like Dathorn) put different amounts of users / accounts per server. Are more accounts put on servers where existing accounts aren't very busy / active? On the flip side, are fewer accounts put on servers where there are already very busy / active sites? If this is the case, it is like a gamble. You can win or loose. In the first case there are a ton more users, so if 10% of them start to have really busy / active sites you could be hosed. On the other side, if on the server with fewer accounts a few of the sites become less popular or active, then maybe you'll have an easy ride?

              Ok, well obviously I've got too much time on my hands... I think I'm going to go plant some tomatoes!

              Keep up the great work Andrew!
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              Comment

              • DomainDog
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2004
                • 158

                #67
                So are the commands for monitoring referenced above entered from within CPanel, in the shh access area?

                I know for me (and maybe a few others), it would be quite helpful to have a step by step instruction to access this ability to monitor processes.

                I apologize for not knowing enought about SSH, Apache and Linux, but a good cure for ignorance is information. That's why I'm asking.
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                • Jim
                  Member
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 44

                  #68
                  Originally posted by MindlessOath
                  im only on page 3 reading

                  just using the most popular scripts is NOT always a solution, it may be the easiest way out and an excuse, but thats about all... your clients are to importaint to you to waist on a badly coded script just cause its popular.

                  You mean like the ones that are installable right from cpanel? If these scripts are so horrible and insecure, perhaps they shouldn't be available on every account.

                  annother thing.... if you dont like somthing thats going on... leave, obviously yelling about how your clients are yelling at you are not going to help. (this is a bit off topic, but i just wanted to mention it) im not talking about dathorn cause i love it here... just in general with any hosting site.

                  Well thanks for your opinion, If it ever happens to you, feel free to remain silent and leave.
                  A more important question is this. Before the old forum died there was a poll by Andrew concerning the removal of ssh. I'd like to know if this is still a possibilty, and if so, how are we to monitor accounts usage with out it.

                  Comment

                  • MindlessOath
                    Member
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 33

                    #69
                    Well thanks for your opinion, If it ever happens to you, feel free to remain silent and leave.
                    by NO means do you have to be silent, and mabe you could take what i said to the next step instead of looking to someone else for your answers :P (not you in particular just subject)

                    at least do what you can do as quick as you can to move and do whats BEST for your clients. if you need to do a legal battle or whatnot, tell all your friends about the bad experiance or anything, then by all means do that.
                    that was off topic and just a suggestion btw if that isnt satisfactory, then please think about it and mabe do a spin off relating to it errr ya.

                    You mean like the ones that are installable right from cpanel? If these scripts are so horrible and insecure, perhaps they shouldn't be available on every account.
                    well the users are probably going to try and install the scripts themselfs anyways, these auto installers usually come with cpanel and ARE popular thats why their there, its also eaiser to use the autoinstaller less of a problem. that doesnt mean you SHOULD use them, and that doesnt mean they should or shouldnt be their. someone that wants a site should do research.. or mabe they just shouldnt be doing what their doing. of course its easier to say that, than it is for people to go out and search google or learn something from someone or even ask. i see it all the time in the community im in.

                    i dont mean to argue tho, i guess just adding more to my other post that mabe i should have.
                    --------
                    aka Mo2

                    Comment

                    • AndrewT
                      Administrator
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 3653

                      #70
                      Originally posted by Jim
                      A more important question is this. Before the old forum died there was a poll by Andrew concerning the removal of ssh. I'd like to know if this is still a possibilty, and if so, how are we to monitor accounts usage with out it.
                      In all honestly, shell access was going to be disabled entirely for everyone as of a few weeks ago but I've just recently have held off on this decision at least for the time being. Right now, though, were at the point that even very legitimate users that would have passed any number of qualifications are sitting on the servers trying to run various exploits (via SSH) among other things and this is just absurd. I can't even explain my distaste for this and punishment for this type of activity comes very quickly.

                      Comment

                      • Pedja
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 329

                        #71
                        Originally posted by AndrewT
                        In all honestly, shell access was going to be disabled entirely for everyone as of a few weeks ago but I've just recently have held off on this decision at least for the time being.
                        This is very upsetting! You are going to take away very important tool? Are you going to provide us other ways to do things that we cannot do without shell access?

                        Comment

                        • Buddha
                          Senior Member
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 825

                          #72
                          In all honestly, shell access was going to be disabled entirely for everyone as of a few weeks ago but I've just recently have held off on this decision at least for the time being.
                          Andrew if your think of disabling SSH, I can't imagine CRON is far behind. Is this also lurking in some dark recess of your mind?
                          "Whatcha mean I shouldn't be rude to my clients?! If you want polite then there will be a substantial fee increase." - Buddha

                          Comment

                          • reviewum.com
                            Member
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 63

                            #73
                            When I read Andrew's post, I knew this was going to go off on its own with many replies.

                            I've opened an SSH thread to continue this as this is going to be a mighty discussion.

                            If you don't mind, can we continue this SSH removal here:


                            http://forums.dathorn.com/showthread.php?t=192

                            Thanks!
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                            Comment

                            • AndrewT
                              Administrator
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 3653

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Buddha
                              Andrew if your think of disabling SSH, I can't imagine CRON is far behind. Is this also lurking in some dark recess of your mind?
                              No, cron will always remain.

                              Comment

                              • Buddha
                                Senior Member
                                • Mar 2004
                                • 825

                                #75
                                Thanks! That's one less worry.
                                "Whatcha mean I shouldn't be rude to my clients?! If you want polite then there will be a substantial fee increase." - Buddha

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