Off Topic - With Caveats?

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  • chrisd
    Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 44

    Off Topic - With Caveats?

    So now we're in the habit of moderating/closing threads in an Off Topic --> General Discussion forum? Ironically just as things were about to digress into the general areas of content appropriateness vs. censorship -- and whether the latter might be a straw man.

    Interesting. But alas, thanks for underscoring the very point I was just about to make - deciding whether such actions will attract or repel people.

    You can now add me to column B.
    Last edited by chrisd; 05-16-2004, 02:57 AM.
  • DomainDog
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 158

    #2
    I am frankly shocked that a moderator would arbitrarily close a discussion thread that was addressing what obviously a number of Dathorn customers felt was important enought to comment on- that is appropriate content for hosted websites!

    It was posted in the "Off Topic" forum under "General Discussion". No one was getting upset or out of hand. Are we not all grown-ups here as well as paying customers, and capable of holding a civil and appropriate discussion? Is that the new policy? To censure and terminate legitimate discussions about appropriate content for our clients websites?

    Can someone please tell me why discussing this in the very forum dedicated to these types of discussions would be innappropriate or a violation of some policy?

    Why was this important discussion abruptly terminated?

    One Confused and dismayed Domain Dog
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    • Jonathan
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2004
      • 1229

      #3
      I fully support what Oz did, he's a great
      person IMO, from talks on AIM with him....

      And, again IMO, if he felt it was getting
      too far off the mark, and being a possiblity
      a "flame war" (doubtful here @ DIS), etc.
      then it obviously must have been.

      Another thing, you should NOT
      have been asking us, and should've
      been puttting in a trouble ticket to Andrew for this.

      As well, though I will not, I feel
      I should close this topic because its
      just a pathetic (IMO) follow-up complaining
      because one or more person(s) did not get their say in.
      "How can someone be so distracted yet so focused?"
      - C

      Comment

      • Buddha
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2004
        • 825

        #4
        Since it looks like Oz maybe taking some heat, let me just say thanks you. Thank you for closing that topic. I'm all for a nice intellectual discussion about some hypothetical event or situation involving content appropriateness vs. censorship. However, Nick Berg was a person, his death was tragic, the event surrounding his death are on going and no one can be expected to look at such an event from a purely intellectual presceptive. Politics, morality, religion etc will enter such a discussion sooner or later. This isn't the place for such discussion. We come here from all over the world to help each other. Let's leave the politic, religion and morality discussion for some other forum.
        "Whatcha mean I shouldn't be rude to my clients?! If you want polite then there will be a substantial fee increase." - Buddha

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        • chrisd
          Member
          • Mar 2004
          • 44

          #5
          Good grief. Hardly a flame war. It was moving into a free exchange of ideas - far away from specifics. I certainly wouldn't have attempted to post if I hadn't thought it would add some value.

          And nobody is giving Oz, or DomainDog for that matter, any heat. His business - His rules.

          But more on topic ...

          Up until yesterday I thought I had been around here long (and contributed) enough to know the lay of the land - evidently not, but I accept that.

          I think I'm done here.

          Comment

          • -Oz-
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2004
            • 545

            #6
            If Andrew has a problem with me closing that thread he can PM me and I will reopen it.

            I believe though, that that thread could only pose issues. This is a mutliculture and multinational country. I'll admit, what they did was very very wrong. As a military person I see many problems with it. The original topic though was about the AUS/TOS in relation to this video. When I locked it it was about the morals of posting such things.

            I will be in Yosemite from today till next Sunday so please don't be too mean to me during that time
            Dan Blomberg

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            • DomainDog
              Senior Member
              • Mar 2004
              • 158

              #7
              I am a moderator at a much larger, commercial forum, and we practice very strict moderation policies. But stifling an ongoing discussion, especially one as relevant to our ongoing businesses is a mistake. A forum EXISTS for discussion, and although the specific video in question was uncomfortable, the SUBJECT is extremely relevant. It was not about morality, religion or politics! It was about content allowed or disallowed.

              No one was flaming. No profanity had been used. Yes some responses were emotional- it's an emotional subject. But not ONE valid reason has been put forth to justify censoring a perfectly relevant discussion. It was a unilateral action taken because of one person's personal opinion.

              Do we now have to apply for "clearance" through the "information ministry" in order to hold a discussion or ask for opinions? There was NOTHING inappropriate about the ongoing discussion. What could be more relevant than a discussion about content, applying the AUP and allowing/disallowing controversial but not fobidden content?

              Moderation is extremely important in a forum, but yielding it's power should be used very selectively. Please read the following DIRECTLY from the Dathorn AUP:
              We support the uncensored flow of information and ideas over the Internet and do not actively monitor subscriber activity under normal circumstances. Similarly, we do not exercise editorial control over the content of any web site, e-mail transmission, newsgroups, or other material created or accessible over or through the services........
              This discussion would have ramped down by itself. It's really a shame that one moderator feels that the customers need to be censored for fear they can't control themselves. This action will not encourage discussion. What's the use? If it doesn't meet the standards of the "information ministry", apparently it will be shut down.

              Feel safe children, daddy is there to protect you, hold your hand, plug your ears and cover your eyes. In case something controversial happens to pop up, you won't be forced to read it or comment on it. We are safe.
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              • chrisd
                Member
                • Mar 2004
                • 44

                #8
                Originally posted by -Oz-
                I believe though, that that thread could only pose issues
                Fair enough. In fact I seem to remember Openbox taking considerable "heat" quite some time ago on a far more mundane topic. But I guess those were different times.

                My only issue is (was) the secondary reasoning of topic drift - in an off topic forum. I personally didn't see it degrading into inflammatory language or attacking one's character - despite what's been suggested earlier in this thread.

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                • chrisd
                  Member
                  • Mar 2004
                  • 44

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jonathan
                  As well, though I will not, I feel I should close this topic because its just a pathetic (IMO) follow-up complaining because one or more person(s) did not get their say in.
                  As a moderator, if you honestly believe that then these forums are in trouble.

                  Again, no worries - I'll join the ranks of contributors past and wind down my activities here.

                  Comment

                  • DomainDog
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 158

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Jonathan
                    I should close this topic because its
                    just a pathetic (IMO) follow-up complaining
                    because one or more person(s) did not get their say in.
                    So, let me get this straight- having an important, relevant discussion about the AUP and content is NOT OK, but a moderator calling a paying customer's question pathetic IS OK?

                    Sounds like that remark is a lot more of a "flame" than anything said by anyone in the other thread. At least everyone in the other thread was civil, polite, and no one felt the need to insult another person's opinion.

                    Not professional moderation in my opinion.
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                    • Jonathan
                      Senior Member
                      • Mar 2004
                      • 1229

                      #11
                      So I'm 15, may God strike me down for saying something
                      out of quick & haste response before leaving for church!

                      Also, DomainDog, notice it does not give
                      notice to its forums; I think Oz was right
                      to close it, and I will stand behind him 100%
                      even if if gets to the point I'm BSing myself to do so!
                      "How can someone be so distracted yet so focused?"
                      - C

                      Comment

                      • openbox
                        Senior Member
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 238

                        #12
                        Originally posted by chrisd
                        In fact I seem to remember Openbox taking considerable "heat" quite some time ago on a far more mundane topic.
                        Different times with different mods. Mods take a lot of sh!t from a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. Mods do thier best to do the "right thing". I tried to when I was a mod and the current mods try to do the same. Nobody is perfect. The mods are simply doing their best to maintain a peaceful, productive environment.

                        My only reason for posting this is to say, give the a break. They're doing the best they can. Chrisd, you have provided a lot of useful and insightful information over the times. I'd hate to see you break away from being helpful here at DIS because a mod closed an off-topic thread.

                        Comment

                        • Jim
                          Member
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 44

                          #13
                          There are many many forums where you can discuss the morality of this and many other issues. I think a STRONG reminder of this, instead of closing the topic would have been the way to go.
                          Last edited by Jim; 05-16-2004, 03:14 PM.

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                          • DomainDog
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 158

                            #14
                            Originally posted by openbox
                            Mods do thier best to do the "right thing". I tried to when I was a mod and the current mods try to do the same. Nobody is perfect. The mods are simply doing their best to maintain a peaceful, productive environment.
                            ... and are therefore subject to making a mistake. The professional, human thing to do when you make a mistake is admit it, apologize and move on. Oz should not have censored and closed a perfectly fine, relevant discussion, then take off for a week.

                            Originally posted by openbox
                            Chrisd, you have provided a lot of useful and insightful information over the times. I'd hate to see you break away from being helpful here at DIS because a mod closed an off-topic thread.
                            I agree Chris has been very helpful to many (including myself), and a good forum member (just like openbox has!). That's why I objected to his comment being called "pathetic" by a moderator. Let's not develop a culture here where mods are always right and paying Dathorn customer/members are always wrong (when the mods say so). That's called despotism.
                            Last edited by DomainDog; 05-16-2004, 03:53 PM.
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                            • DomainDog
                              Senior Member
                              • Mar 2004
                              • 158

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Jim
                              There are many many forums where you can discuss the morality of this and many other issues. I think a STRONG reminder of this, instead of closing the topic would have been the way to go.
                              I agree closing the thread was a mistake, but did you read the thread in question?

                              The subject was not morality or philosophy. It was the appropriateness of allowing a customer to place on a Dathorn-hosted website very controversial content not forbidden by the AUP.

                              That is DIRECTLY relevant to every Dathorn customer.
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