Indexing- Bad Idea??

[DomainDog]

I agree, Dathorn should keep info about his clients private. That includes forum messages. Howver, Forums are open as good marketing practice to openly show how thigs are going on.

Actually, I decided to go with Dathorn after I lurked through the forum for a while. They have good ofer on their site but anyone can offer you anything. Here, everyone can se what is really offered.

But as a customer, I would like to see support part of this forum closed to nonmembers.

Middle solution is to never show any info about yourself. I am sure there are lots of people posting on this forum under aliases. I also second suggestion for Andrew to set robots.txt to forbid topic indexing on search engines. thsi forum does not need to be vivisected by google since he is targeted to customers who come here in totally different way.

However, I dislike way you run your business. It seems to me that you are simply overselling resources bought from Dathorn. I strongly believe that was not the general idea of reselling. It is suposed that you use Dathorn services to get affordable hosting service, add some valuable services of your own and sell it together for increased value of your service.

So, If you are afraid that your clients might find out that you are selling to them one cpanel account for price that is almost the same as price for whole resseler account you should be.

Look at the Jonathan. He's 15 years old and he recognized perfectly what is quality way to create his own bussiness.

Pedja, much of what you say is right on, and I agree with it. Having at least some part of this forum private for direct discussions of account specifics would be a welcome thing. And having the public browse parts of it is cool, as I did before I became a Dathorn customer.

But the part about "overselling" Dathorn resources? Huh?

First off, I'm sure you are aware that unlike other reselling hosts, you cannot oversell your resources. Once a portion of your bandwidth or storage is allocated, that's it. This was a deliberate (and wise) decision made by Andrew a long time ago. There was even some discussion way back about seperate "overselling" type accounts, but it was eventually nix'ed.

Secondly, I'm sure you are aware that the basic tenant of a business is to purchase a product for one price (wholesale), then resell it for more than you bought it for (retail)? That's called making a profit.

Did you know a car dealer makes an average profit of over $2000.00 on every car sold? The grocery store buys milk for about 1.60 per gallon, and sells it to you at 2.50? And the cost to manufacture that can of Coke someone bought for $1.25? About 9 cents! That doesn't mean that Coca-Cola is evil or immoral. It means they're smart, successful businessmen.

If Jonathan has a business model that works for him- that's great and I admire him for it! Business is the great equalizer and is 100% democratic. If you suck at it, or your business model is flawed, you die. Pure, beautiful, graceful meritocracy. The opposite of socialism.

If you choose not to resell your resources- more power to you. But it's kinda silly to scold someone for reselling resources purchased wholesale from a reseller account, or for having a successful business. Surely you don't think Andrew doesn't make a profit reselling space on his servers?

[ChrisTech]

What happens when they actually search for other webhosting? They could go elsewhere and get even more space/bw for a lower price.

I like the open forums. Shows that Dathorn has nothing to hide. I ***HATE*** webhosts who have forums that are closed to the public. Makes me think they have something to hide. All of my customers know where I get my hosting from. They know I am reselling space from another host. They could decide to leave me and come straight here. They don't. Why ? Maybe I give them something more than they could get elsewhere.

If your customers are truely happy with your service, I'm sure they will stay with you. Even if they find out you are "reselling" another service.

I was hosting one buddy who needed more space, and I sent him to Dathorn to get it. Lost him as a customer, but got some really good referrals from him. And I don't even have a website stating Im a webhost. =)

If Dathorn would of had private/closed to the public forums, when I first looked at them for a webhost, I can say I'd probably be at another host right now.

My $0.02

If a customer is willing to pay $10.95 per month for one account and limited resources, then finds out they can have unlimited domains, 2 GB storage and 30 GB bandwidth for 3 dollars more..... well do the math!

It's been a time-honored practice for wholesale suppliers (i.e. Dathorn) to protect their retailers (i.e. us!) from the end users having access to the same resources at wholesale prices.

And Frank's right, there are other ways to "pierce the veil" and find Dathorn, but some are fairly arcane and not typical of end users (like how many search at NameIntelligence?). But with our discussions in this forum being Google indexed and easily found with a simple search, it's as easy as can be.

And I have never told my customers anything untrue. Because I don't choose to tell them what my arrangements are, that is not deceptive in any way. In fact, not one has ever asked.

I don't make the rules, and I'm not condemning Andrew for allowing Googlebot (and others) access, but I wish we had a place, like ONE section where we could talk freely amongst ourselves without our customers being able to read what we say! Call it "Resellers Only" or something.

From a reseller/business perspective, that seems like the right thing.

[-Oz-]

Yes, if Dathorn's forums were closed I also would not be here.

It was part of my research to see if customer's were actually happy.

[Jonathan]

I know this is off-topic but--

omg did I hear my name and "admire" and what not,
in the like same sentance?? As in, the word "admire" was applied to my name??

Omg *faints*

[DomainDog]

I know this is off-topic but--

omg did I hear my name and "admire" and what not,
in the like same sentance?? As in, the word "admire" was applied to my name??

Omg *faints*

Apparently, you missed the "if" clause in that sentence (Just kidding, Jonathan!)

[openbox]

I agree, Dathorn should keep info about his clients private.

The last time I checked, Dathorn doesn't provide any information about their clients to anyone.

But as a customer, I would like to see support part of this forum closed to nonmembers.

These forums are not meant to be used as Dathorn's support system. If anyone uses it as such and feels that they don't want this information potentially viewed by their customers, I'd highly recommend not posting in public and to submit a trouble ticket instead. That avoids this whole discussion

[Jonathan]

once again Openbox has it right
Seriously though...

These forums are open-- we all know the riskes of posting URLS...
I mean first time I came, I was in middle of re-designing my site,
and asked bout people's sites here---

Everyone but Oz told me no, that it'd
be too risky and what not, and not
many would dare to post their URL.

Like others though (2lazy to backcheck who said it),
I'm fine with letting people know (if they ask),
that I am a reseller...

All are shocked (and most applued me for knowing what I desire to do, so young)
to find out that I'm 15 yrs old and own a small biz...

But I tell them-- its great, but if you ever
saw my school grades-- you'd probably take back your
comments bout me being smart (or comments long those lines)

[Pedja]

But the part about "overselling" Dathorn resources? Huh?

That is mustake of my bad english. I meant: selling something for ridiculously higher price.

I belive it is clear that I was talking about selling single cpanel account for the price which almost pays of whole reseller account...

reseller account, or for having a successful business. Surely you don't think Andrew doesn't make a profit reselling space on his servers?

I think it is not apropriate to compare this to Andrew's business model as it is evident that he does not trade web resources, but includes lots of his work and work of his employees to provide good service. This is what I called reselling with added value.

[][kkebra]

I agree with DomainDog. You're left with the options of changing your username somehow or finding a non-indexed place to post. It's different for everyone though. Some only have the type of friends that don't know how to turn on a computer. No worries there. Others have those that just know how to check email or build a simple website. Still no bother. But if you lucky enough to have a friend or friendly competitor who is constantly out there thinking 'how does he do it?', then you better come up with a new alias to call yourself. btw, Agent Smith or something generic is a good choice

And boo boo to all those forums that make you become a paying customer until you can sample their community spirit

[DomainDog]

That is mustake of my bad english. I meant: selling something for ridiculously higher price.

I belive it is clear that I was talking about selling single cpanel account for the price which almost pays of whole reseller account...

Pedja, you are free to charge whatever you think is fair for your value added services. And if my business model is bad, then I will inevitably fail, and you will be proved right. But I've been doing this for almost 15 months, and I'm doing quite well, thank you! My customers are very happy and know they are getting great hosting and great service at a great price.

I think it is not apropriate to compare this to Andrew's business model as it is evident that he does not trade web resources, but includes lots of his work and work of his employees to provide good service. This is what I called reselling with added value.

Yes, and what do you think I do- sit on my butt all day and drink beer and watch soap operas?

I am not privy to the wholesale prices Dathorn pays for it's servers and/or colocation accounts, but I'd be willing to bet a NICKLE that if you knew that figure, then divided it by the number of accounts on each server, you'd probably be quite surprised that Dathorn is doing very well! (hint: it's likely he makes more from the accounts than he pays for the servers).

[ChrisTech]

(hint: it's likely he makes more from the accounts than he pays for the servers).

Isn't that the point of a business? To make money? If he didn't we would have to look for a new home.

[DomainDog]

These forums are not meant to be used as Dathorn's support system.

Openbox, that seems like an odd statement. I thought that what these forum were all about?

I know I for one have gotten a lot of support and learning from you and many others on this forum. I usually reserve trouble tix for malfunctions and things not fixable or diagnosable via our level of access.

[shalom_m]

Interesting discussion so far.

Some of us are candid with our clients and tell them about Dathorn, shared hosting and the like; others prefer, for their own reasons, to keep these facts from their clients.
The latter may at some stage be embarrassed when their clients find out the truth – so I would assume that this is a bad business practice.
Good business practice is always based on trust and value added. Remove these ingredients and you are left with nothing more than short-term hustling.

Let’s analyze a business model that we all know, that works and that we use: Andrews Dathorn.
We are all here, not because Dathorn is the cheapest hosting provider. We are here because we trust the provider and his service adds value to the product he provides. He does not have to claim that he owns a hosting farm.

One thing not mentioned so-far about this forum, far more interesting than our relationship with our clients, is our relationship with our competitors. A lot of us in this forum compete with each other in the REAL WORLD. We offer similar services to potentially the same target group.
Never the less, in this forum, we tend to cooperate, share ideas, and help each other with solutions to problems we encounter.

Those of us who feel vulnerable because they his their provider name from their clients freely share their experience, tricks, tools, codes and trade secrets with their competitors.

I wonder why!

[DomainDog]

Isn't that the point of a business? To make money? If he didn't we would have to look for a new home.

Exactly! Chris, as usual, you cut right to the heart of the matter!

It seemed that Pedja felt it was somehow bad to resell something (in this case a hosting account) for a profit. I was trying to explain to him that that's the very reason we can all be here at Dathorn even having this discussion!

[DomainDog]

Wow Shalom_m, some very good points and great input! May be so bold as to address each of them?

Interesting discussion so far.

Some of us are candid with our clients and tell them about Dathorn, shared hosting and the like; others prefer, for their own reasons, to keep these facts from their clients.
The latter may at some stage be embarrassed when their clients find out the truth – so I would assume that this is a bad business practice.
Good business practice is always based on trust and value added. Remove these ingredients and you are left with nothing more than short-term hustling.

Each business owner must create and follow their own business plan. It's not a matter of deception or hiding anything. If any of my clients asked outright, I would not ever lie to them. As it is- they don't ask and I don't tell. I certainly hope you are not suggesting that those who choose not to reveal their source of hosting resources are practicing "short-term hustling". I think there are some that might take offense if you were.

.Let’s analyze a business model that we all know, that works and that we use: Andrews Dathorn.
We are all here, not because Dathorn is the cheapest hosting provider. We are here because we trust the provider and his service adds value to the product he provides. He does not have to claim that he owns a hosting farm.

I agree completely, and also believe that's why we are here at Dathorn. I have no recollection of anyone in this thread saying they made false claims to any of their customers, do you?

One thing not mentioned so-far about this forum, far more interesting than our relationship with our clients, is our relationship with our competitors. A lot of us in this forum compete with each other in the REAL WORLD. We offer similar services to potentially the same target group.
Never the less, in this forum, we tend to cooperate, share ideas, and help each other with solutions to problems we encounter.

Personally, I do not feel a sense of competition with any of my friends at Dathorn. I have more business than I know what to do with, and not one of them was taken away from another Dathorn reseller. Nor do I fear are they in any danger of being taken away.

Those of us who feel vulnerable because they his their provider name from their clients freely share their experience, tricks, tools, codes and trade secrets with their competitors.

I wonder why?

Personally, I share and participate here because I enjoy the discussions, and very much enjoy hearing what you and others have to say. And I have learned and benefitted greatly from it. And best of all.... occasionally, I get the thrill of helping somone else out as well. I am a moderator on another large commercial forum, and I find it very rewarding. That's why I do it.