Search Engine bots and spammers

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  • Pedja
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 329

    #1

    Search Engine bots and spammers

    I am investigating a problem that I noticed on some of my sites. It showed up that I am not the only one noticing it.

    Search Engine crawlers are becoming quite annoying. They spider sites far to often and far to aggresive. Usualy they do not follow instructions in robots.txt. Ot seems that the only solution is to simply block IP addresses where bots come from and get rid of them. This, of course is no god solution, since that means you wil loose any visibilty on search engines, which is hardly something one would like to do.

    Forums, blogs and other dynamic content sites are most vurnelable, since most bots do not recognize cyclical links that are usual for this kind of sites and they crawl same pages again and again. IT is also problem that each connection bot makes to the site is presented as new session, so site statistics is messed out, but also, it is not uncommon that bots do not recognize session ID's provided by sites, so they see the same page as new page just because it has different SID.

    There is also one more problem, some spammers are using crawling techniques to promote. They simply crawl your site but put their own url in http Referer (yes, referer may be easily faked). It causes that if you have statistics of your site (and usualy you do), their site shows up as referer link. Most ridiculous examle is spammer who puts Gogole search url as referer, but with predefined keys that lead to his site.

    I am stating ths topic because I found out that one forum (which is usualy not resource hog) I host on Dathorn, suffered bot and spam attack that lasted for seven days. It was under constant load by search engine bots and spammers so it spent enormous traffic and number of connections. I am wondering how Dathorn stuff did not notice and suspend my site for that.

    The only solution I hve is to simplu block IP or IP ranges of hosts where such connections came from. I hoipe, it wil at least lower ammount of unwanted traffic.

    Long tiem ago I set robots.txt for that forum to instruct spiders to take it is on my board. For soem of them it works, for others it does not.

    Here is an contents of robots.txt for those who want to implement it on their forums (this is fopr phpBB forum). Just save it in file named robots.txt and place it in the root of your site (forum must be installed in rot to, otherwise alter file and directory paths to match those on your site).

    Code:
    User-agent: *
    Disallow: /cgi-bin/
    Disallow: /img
    Disallow: /images
    Disallow: /admin/
    Disallow: /_decomas/
    Disallow: /_smarty/
    Disallow: /smarty/
    Disallow: /login.php
    Disallow: /posting.php
    Disallow: /privmsg.php
    Disallow: /search.php
    Disallow: /memberlist.php
    Disallow: /groupcp.php
    Disallow: /statistics.php
    Disallow: /viewonline.php
    Disallow: /rules.php
    Disallow: /modcp.php
    Disallow: /logout.php
    Disallow: /album.php
    Disallow: /printview.php
    Crawl-delay: 360
    Unfortunately this is not enough, so I am looking for a ways to further control search engine spiders on site. There is an obvious soultion to change forum code so it recognizes and handles spiders differently, but that is not easy to implement and it is actualy against spider policy as they demand to see exaclty the same contents as ordinary user, otherwise, they snadbox site.

    One thing that came to my mind is to traffic shape connections coming from spiders. That would allow us to slow down all connections coming from the spiders. It actually may be quite effective, especialy if you really slow it down. First, load to site would be definitely decreased simpy do e to slow connections, and second you won't be blocking spiders, meaning, they wil stil be able to crawl but slower.

    So, you get both good effects: site is releived of load and stil indexed by search engines. Bad thing is that indexing would not be fast, but it is slow anyways (because of many other factors), so it won't make soem difference.

    Traffic shaping could easily solve another problem: some spiders are unpolite ant they create many concurent connections to your site, incirising load further. Polite spiders crwal single page at a time. For such unplite spiders solution is to limit number of connections thay are able to create. Remember, all this limitations should be used only on known spam bot IP addresses.

    Well, this seems fine, but here is one huge problem. we cannot set such shaping. Only Dathorn stuff can, and if they do, it would affect all sites. I do not expect them to be willing to do this, but, at least I mentioned it.

    I am open to other ideas to control spam bots but keep site indexed on search engines.
  • Buddha
    Senior Member
    • Mar 2004
    • 825

    #2
    I've got this problem too. It's why I'm still using mostly static HTML. The dynamic scripts that I do use are my own and optimized for shared hosting. I haven't seen many open source scripts that are shared server friendly. PHP's OOP craze hasn't helped either IHMO. There are a few projects, like Gallery, that realize there users are on shared hosting. Just wish there were more like them.

    I like the "traffic shaping" idea. I'm not sure how that would be implemented and will need to think about that.

    I've thought of using cloaking too. For example, does the search engine need to see user comments on a blog? Do I need 10 or 20 pages of user comments indexed? How about the "add comment" form - kind of waste on a robot? Do they need to index the entire topic or just the first page or maybe just the topic without any replies? (Think how much that would cut robot traffic. By the second page most users are off-topic any way.) I think these would be OK with most search engines because your not trying to deceive them. Your giving them actual content just not all of it. Restricting their access and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that's the proper use of cloaking actually.

    ADDENDUM:

    Just noticed one clients got Slurp'ed for 11,000 plus hits this month - 67MB. That's more than one third of his robot traffic for the month! I HATE Slurp!
    Last edited by Buddha; 06-01-2006, 07:18 AM.
    "Whatcha mean I shouldn't be rude to my clients?! If you want polite then there will be a substantial fee increase." - Buddha

    Comment

    • ChrisTech
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2004
      • 530

      #3
      I tend to block Slurp. Damn thing goes after every page on my forums constantly. Just blocked the whole net range. I let google in, and a few others, but Slurp has a bad issue with sending 15+ bots at a time to my forums, and they all hit the same pages, over and over and over....
      Hosting at Dathorn since March 2003!

      My Interwebs speed on Charter Cable!

      Comment

      • Pedja
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2004
        • 329

        #4
        CLoacking would be able to significantly make things better but problem is that, if search engine find out you are using cloaking, you are going to be blacklisted. That is something that search engines do not allow to do.

        Comment

        • Buddha
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2004
          • 825

          #5
          Originally posted by Pedja
          CLoacking would be able to significantly make things better but problem is that, if search engine find out you are using cloaking, you are going to be blacklisted. That is something that search engines do not allow to do.
          I think there's a big difference between what I described and any search engine spammers use of cloaking. However, what if you treat the search engines like any other unregistered user? That certainly wouldn't get anyone blacklisted, would it? The search engines would get better information which means warm blooded users would too. Probably a good SEO technique and may even help promote user registration.

          We need a few more categories of users any way. Registered and unregistered ain't cutting it with spammers robots even able to register now to post their crap. We need an intermediate moderated category to separate the warm blooded humans from the robots.

          I wonder if I could modify a really simple forum to try this. I'll have to put it on my to do list.

          and they all hit the same pages, over and over and over....
          I'm surprise Slurp didn't get my client's site suspended. It downloaded the whole site 4 or 5 times in one visit. Guess I got good old static HTML to thank for that.
          "Whatcha mean I shouldn't be rude to my clients?! If you want polite then there will be a substantial fee increase." - Buddha

          Comment

          • Pedja
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2004
            • 329

            #6
            Originally posted by Buddha
            I think there's a big difference between what I described and any search engine spammers use of cloaking.
            I agree 100% but Google stuf says: "Cloacking is no no." They do not care why you use it, if they find out you use it, you are out of the game.

            Originally posted by Buddha
            However, what if you treat the search engines like any other unregistered user? That certainly wouldn't get anyone blacklisted, would it? The search engines would get better information which means warm blooded users would too. Probably a good SEO technique and may even help promote user registration.
            I did not get this part. Of course that site treats SE as any other anonymous user. Thing is I do not want to prevent access to anonymous users, I want them to see site, I want even SE to see the site, but I do not want SE to abuse my site as they do.

            Preventing anonymous visitors to see the site is unacceptable. I would rather ban IP's where search engine crawlers come from.

            Thats why I came up with an idea of shaping. That could be the way to gain visit but prevent abuse by SE.

            Comment

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