Design,Customers,Content

[Dave]

OK...
So I'm a freelance guy just goofing around in his spare time... Maybe make a few bucks here and there. I started just doing little personal sites and then did a couple for some friends and stuff... Still a rookie really

Stumbled across Dathorn after going through 4 or 5 different bad hosts... Now that problem is solved... So...

I had dreams of making lots of money but then saw the incredible amounts of web design competition out there... But that's OK; I'm fine just being a hobbyist if ya can dig that?

Lately some folks have found me however and have wanted some sites either cleaned up or new ones... My questions...

How do you get people to tell you what they want on a certain page...? And to convince them that the text on a website is important?

It seems like I am always guessing about things to write and then they read it and tell me that's not what they want to say...

It's often the same with images... I'll clean up something like a logo they send me and they tell me they want it to look exactly like it is in their little publisher document they sent me. Which is terrible... Or they send me to one of those silly clip art sites to try and "help me out"

Or they have crazy ideas about how the site should look and give me an example of a HUGE site with tons of content... "Can't you make my site look like that?"

I guess the bottom line is I love to design sites and have a little talent at it. But have learned that dealing with folks who want websites can be very frustrating. I was just wondering if other people have similar issues...

**VENT**

Dave

[dammitjanet]

well i think you've come across 90% of the web designers problems allready.

Handling the customer can be one of the worst aspects of the job, sometimes they are what I call "pickers" and sometimes "wow'ers", and the worst of them all "but'ters".

the Picker - they choose the color, the logo, the layout - these people know what they want, and unless they are asking for the moon, or making glaring design mistakes, I'm much happier since half the work is already done. these guys already have the content done, no hassles here.

the Wow'er - these people are just amazed that their site will become a reality - pretty much these types have to be levered aside - you make all the decisions, everything is up to you. Sometimes this is bad, sometimes this is good. For a real designer this can be the time when you flex your design muscles and produce a work of art, sometimes its when you produce any old shit because they aren't paying enough to get your best work. Wow-ers usualy dont have a clue about the content, or if they do they have no idea how they want it laid out/connected etc. Its at this point I advocate starting a content plan, draw up a site plan with all the sections required, subdivide the sections into pages and then give the plan to them and tell them to write the content and no work can progress until you have the document back. that way you dont spend time uncessarily, and the content is what they have given you so no surprises if they want to change things, you can say "but thats what you aksed me to put" and charge them for the changes.

The But'ters - you know these ppl, "I love the site but...", "I think it looks great but couldnt change all the colors to this color [holds up grainy image]" - yes you KNOW these people, the halfway house between Wow-ers and Pickers, these guys are the worst of the lot, they interfere withthe rightful order of things. perhaps they started as pickers and went but.. but.. but, or they became But'ters after being Wow-ers, but (dont you love tha word?) they want changes, either minute "no-one-would-ever-notice-the-difference" changes, or "massive-I-have-to-redo-the whole-site changes". Sure faults in the design, spellign (sic!) errors, layout changes are all part of bringing a site to life, but these people drive you crazy. I dont have anaswer to But'ters, except weigh the cost of the changes against future work prospects, and make the decision based on that.

Welcome to the crazy world of Webdesign. (Please note these views are meant to be satirical and are not in fact based on any person or persons liveing or dead, honest, but are in fact based on stereotypes I have met through my work in design over 5 years)

[Jonathan]

I had dreams of making lots of money but then saw the incredible amounts of web design competition out there... But that's OK; I'm fine just being a hobbyist if ya can dig that?
.....
I guess the bottom line is I love to design sites and have a little talent at it. But have learned that dealing with folks who want websites can be very frustrating. I was just wondering if other people have similar issues...

**VENT**

Dave

That sounds like me. I cannot contribute to this topic much but I will
say this: Stress the importance that THEY need to fill in the blanks with content.

[Dave]

Thanks... But...

Just kidding...

I think you got something there guys.. I like that
**Pick
**Wow
**But

Thanks for the info!

[ThomasW]

Let us not forget the "Don't Knows".
They don't know what they want but they trust your judgement..until you present a design, then all they can do is tell you what they don't like.

I think they are very closely related to The But'ters.

[Elite]

Yes with ThomasW on this one - You present the design and they had something else in mind that they failed to tell you about and requires a complete rethink...

[DesignURL]

I'm a multimedia developer, but the past few years have been doing more and more web design for small business customers in my area.

Having gone down some of these very paths, what I do any more is:

Meet with the customer and explain the process.

a) Finding the right domain name, which usually consists of their small business name or city prefixed. Usually straight forward. Sometimes it's not available and someone else owns it. I recently helped a customer by negotiating with the owner of the domain (was not using it) to get it for their use. Little extras help.

b) I explain that with the domain, I'll setup the web host account and start working on the site design. I ask the customer what their favorite color is and if they see their site using that color. Most often they do. I ask the customer to surf some sites or competitors and let me know ideas about what they like and do not like and what they would like to see from these example sites. This gives me an idea of what their expectation is and what things they like (lots of images, gradients, flat colors, etc). By focusing on what they identify as liking, I can come up with a design that will meet their expectation.

c) I offer to go to their location and setup their email account(s) for them. It's better than trying to do it on the phone. It's another opportunity to interact with the customer and ease any concerns they may have.

d) I explain that the design process is usually the most difficult and time consuming process (and for the types of sites - mostly information on a small business - it usually is) and that once that it is complete, I bill for 50%. During the initial meeting, I explain that I try to focus on good design that will keep your potential customers on your site. I explain that if you do a search for "dogs" on the web, and the first 3-6 results have designs that are not pleasing and do not look good, are you going to buy a product there? I let them know that the competition is tough and that I focus on a design that looks good, so that customers will be more likely to spend time there to find out more.

e) I never offer to compose their content. Instead, I put that responsibility on them. I ask for the areas (buttons or front page text links) they need to convey information. Together, we identify the pages they see their site having, including a contact page. I tell them that while I'm working on the design, they should focus on putting together the text they would like to use. I even tell them to construct it as a sales pitch. "If you were going to sell a customer on this topic, what would you say to them to make them a buyer today?" I do offer to edit the text and focus keywords on their content.

f) I ask them for digital photos that represent each page of content. If they don't have them, I ask them to visit iStockPhoto.com and look for photos they think would work. I also offer to go to their site and take digital photos. I involve them and ask them what shots would be most beneficial.

g) Though some of the areas above happen after I get confirmation of the project, I always go over these in the initial meeting. I explain the process and let them know I will take care of everything on my end. I offer free hosting for the first year (up to a certain limit) and tell them this is a $15 dollar a month savings and allows me to quickly manage their account for them.

h) Offer to submit their sites to search engines, but explain that they should contact their friends, family and business colleagues with web sites to ask for a link.

Most of my customers have no idea about the web. They just know they want/need their presence there. And that's ok. What I do is try to reassure them that I have the knowledge and skill set to take care of all aspects. I let them know I'll be there after the site is going, to add/make changes and all they have to do is email me text or photos. I explain my hourly rate after the site is done and what to expect for updates, should they need them.

I live in a city of almost 200,000. And I wipe my competitors on the floor. Simply because I have a good portfolio, rank well for "web design" with my city in front of it (number one across google, msn and yahoo). Once I get in front of the customer, I can convince them that I am who they need. I know what they want...they want someone who can handle all aspects and take their fears away. In three years, I've yet to be turned down for a project. Oddly enough, my closing is not a commitment for a contract. I explain that this is an important step forward for them and that they should not be sold on a designer, but rather choose a designer they feel will take care of them. I'm simply amazed that by extending that non-pressure statement, almost 90% of my customers choose me on the spot.

By identifying responsibilities up front (I do the design, take care of web hosting, come to their office and setup email for them, build the pages, submit to search engines, etc) and including them in the process by having them come up with the content for the pages, it works great. It keeps me from having to write their content and it allows them to be part of the process of building their site. It gives them bragging rights to be a part of the process.

I'm probably a bit different than some. I don't focus on blogs, game sites, large scale stores, etc. I just focus on the small business that wants a web presense and convince them I'll take care of everything. Lots of money to be made in that sector!

[timg]

A recommendation for you...

... join the forum named "public" at forums.webdevbiz.net. It's a jewel - nice discussion, and very helpful on all fronts of the web development business.

[Dave]

Thanks guys..
I like that step by step approach there.. It looks like DesignURL have the steps down pat.. And the sales part as well. Which is another area I can't seem to get anywhere.. Sometimes I feel like changing hobbies.. LOL

DesignURL seems to be dealing with local folks too.. Which has been difficult as well..
"I don't check my email much, can you just come down here and help me"? Or they want me to repair the computer which I can do but, you know...

Then I have also had the Ecommerse situations.. People want to sell on thier website but have no idea how to enter products into a web based store.. Etc,,, and/or they don't know anything about pay pal which I believe is very user friendly.. Perhaps there are easier solutions... I have a new client who wants a store now but knows zero about paypal or anything.. I try to explain that ecommerse of any kind will require a learning curve.. Am I right? I can't manage sombody elses store or pay pal account.

Anyway I guess I could go on and on.. The more clients I get the more situations. Lord have mercy! (many of the folks I do stuff for are excellent so I need to count my blessings really)

timg:
I'll check out that forum you mentioned. Thanks for the tip!

Also thanks for iStockPhoto.com and look for photos they think would work

I've run into that situation also.. Pictures..

Cheers!